Week 3: Gods Word

Feb 05, 2008 08:33 AM
My score was 16.

Feb 05, 2008 02:59 PM
My score was a 23.

Feb 06, 2008 03:02 PM
I was unable to be in Church this week due to sick kids, but I went over Lenni's quiz and scored a 17 myself, but I don't know exactly what that means?

Feb 06, 2008 09:38 PM
Where is the bible application quiz, eh? I looked everywhere for it and just cannot seem to find it. I wasn't at church this weekend, so maybe that's why.

Help a lady!!!!

Feb 06, 2008 10:13 PM
I was unable to be in church this weekend as well, due to "Helping a Lady!!!!"
So when she gets a hold of the Quiz, I'll go over it after her and score 1 higher than her, like Tod did...

Insert Super Hero grin here.

Feb 07, 2008 06:49 AM
You can down load the notes from ac3.org. The quiz is on the notes.

If you give a quick listen to Rick's talk (also at ac3.org) you can hear the "results"

Feb 07, 2008 07:52 AM
Must run in the family - I am looking for "the quiz" too!

Feb 07, 2008 07:54 AM
I found the QUIZ! It's at the end of the notebook pages for Week 3.....

Feb 07, 2008 07:55 AM
Sorry Dan I should read before I respond...it's because my kermit hat is on too tight

Feb 07, 2008 09:48 AM
After staff, I retook the test because I obviously remembered my number wrong. Those who know me...I am quite the conservative girl. I was still surprised to find 19.28 was my score from the way I understood the questions:)

Oh my goodness miss Jenny...I can NOT stop giggling over your kermit hat!!! I hope you are going to wear it running today:)

BTW - You can find each week's lesson questions @ http://www.ac3.org/transcripts.htm#Community and the Bible Application Quiz is in Week 3.

Feb 07, 2008 11:30 AM
Yes...I must agree that the hat adds a certain...je ne sais quoi!

I have spoken to several people now about their scores, and while no one has been blown away by their scores, ("WHAT THE CRAP! I had no idea my brain worked like THIS!") there were a large number of people who had their eyebrows raised a bit.

I, for one, expected to score more conservatively than I did (I scored 22). As I look back over my answers I saw a trend emerge:

I am conservative on the OVERALL authority of scripture, but I am more progressive on the issues regarding OT purity laws.

This seems to be consistent with how I live my life...so I guess THAT's good news. What I'm wondering is, how all of you are APPLYING this knowledge to your own journey?

For me, I'm more carefully considering the "warnings" that come with my view (moderate). This last week, as I engage in my own studies, I'm much more prayerful about HOW I view each passage...I'm asking God after every other sentence, "Am I reading this with the right KIND of authority?" I can't be too flippant about applying my own ASSUMED authority.

Feb 08, 2008 06:07 PM
Hello. Most of you do not know me yet (I've been attending since Oct 07). I chose this picture because my husband bought me one of these heads (you plant a trailing flower in the top) for Mother's Day a few years ago... Just what I wanted? (He's cool, and still in the pond in the back yard) : )

I scored 24 on the quiz... So, if I analyze the score just right, I think I might discover that I over analyze from time to time. Although, I am not sure, I haven't checked the historicity of the quiz and the exact context of the scoring ruberic, so I'm not sure if that's what it means... (well, maybe I better analyze that idea!)... jk jk

I think I need to chill out a bit (my kids sure think so!!)... God is faithful and will bless me with growth! Thanks Rick for the thought provoking lesson : )

Feb 09, 2008 04:36 PM
Hey Tracy!

Welcome aboard!

I had a great conversation with another AC3r this week, in which the thought was put forward: "No other church would even THINK of having their congregation take a test like this!"

This is not meant to be a "toot your own horn" thing...but I think it's true.

My experience is that most churches dictate an interpretive style just like any group would dictate which clothes to wear or which music is hip. It's a culture thing. Therefore people either have to adopt the style of interpretation that the "cool kids" have adopted, or risk being left out.

To allow people to interact with the scriptures on thier own (with solid, well trained and inspired GUIDANCE form teachers), creates the opportunity for people to actually fall in love with the scriptures (and therefore the Author) rather than just working to maintian the acceptance of their peers.

This quote from the character Leslie in "Bridge to Tarabithia" says it for me. She says of the Bible to a "churched" friend of hers:


"You have to believe it, and you hate it. I don't have to believe it, and I think it's beautiful.

Feb 10, 2008 05:16 AM
I loved that part of Bridge, it made me glad I sat through the whole movie! (not that it was a bad movie - but if I knew it was going to make me cry I would have turned it off and put on some Stallone or Schwarzenegger - *insert grunt noise* )

This may seem off topic, but Lori and I were just talking about how the world might have been if books were never invented (or allowed to exist after invention).
Imagine, the only knowledge you would ever have would be from within your own community (because everything comes from only from mouths and only into ears). Some people criticized the idea of books when they came along because they foresaw that it would corrupt some aspects of community and learning.
Learning was thought to be a community thing where ideas were proposed, argued, and stamped with approval or rejection within a context of many minds in relationship.

Books promised to make community a thing unnecessary to learning.

Part of me thinks perhaps they were right. Without books we may still be very much in tribal or village life, isolated from the rest of the world and it's ideas. Without books, there would never have been so many villains rise to power, the classes of peoples might be far more even and fair, there would be a lot less for us to fight over. I could go on forever with guesses about a world without written language.

The part of me that wishes for this is the component that believes ignorance is bliss. At the end of the day, however, I realize that only evil seeks to keep a people ignorant.

It has created a lot of messes over the centuries, but I would rather knowledge be an "open" thing. I would rather be able to communicate with thousands or millions of others, with thousands or millions of different ideas than I would ever find within my own limited community. I would rather be communicated with from across many miles and many decades.

The problem now, of course, is that the flood gates have been opened and there is a threat that we will begin drowning in it all - that we will just shut off our minds. Knowledge and information through written language could possibly become a thing contemptible.

And all of that to say, I would rather be in a church that encourages thought, reflection, learning. One that teaches the truth God has provided in a book, and at the very same time, puts that book and the weight of it in everyones hands instead of assuming, like some churches have, that people are too stupid to make any use of the scriptures themselves.

Well, it turns out this was very off topic - sorry... :)

Feb 10, 2008 11:06 AM
I believe this whole church discipleship program is fantasitc! I have experienced the "you're too stupid to make sense of the scriptures yourself" kind of church that makes the scriptures say what the shepherds want it to say, and you better not ask any questions.

This idealism, I believe, keeps the congregation at the level of new bornes or toddlers. It is not condusive to personal growth toward the Father and continued maturity to disciples. It just brings us to alignment with the preachers and their interpretations and applications.

We are also not called to follow man blindly; we are responsible to know the Truth! If we don't, we have nothing to measure our teachings to; therefore, we would have no way to know whether we are being taught the Truth or not. Knowing the Truth keeps us all accountable to the Father, not each other. It keeps us from being respectors of men.

I am impressed that the shepherds at AC3 recognize the neccesity to teach us ALL to understand Scripture and apply it in our daily walk... After all, that is what the NT church is instructed to do!

I am so thankful that God brought my family and me to AC3 when He did. My spiritual journey is already blessed; I look forward to continued depth and insight into the Scriptures and my Heavenly Father!

Feb 10, 2008 11:07 AM
I disagree! I think it was right down the pipe!

Here's the question it begs for me: (maybe this should put under "pass the steak sauce") but...what if language (written or otherwise) is one of God's mitigations of original sin? Like a divorce certificate was to a marriage; like the monarchy was to Israel?

What if the original design was intimacy with none of the kind of communication we depend on (which Lewis says is ENTIRELY metaphor, therefore ALWAYS inaccurate sto some extent)

What if communion with God and each other in the original creation was wordless? Now that "words" have entered the world, we must learn to deal with it, and freedom to engage with it openly is God's mercy?

Feb 10, 2008 02:06 PM
Now, Now scripture is our foundation. While language as "God's mitigation of original sin" maybe an interesting thought I don't know that it is anymore then hypothesis without foundation. However, today......that point would be mutt anyway becouse sin has entered the world, God has chosen to speak to us through his scripture. Perhaps someday a wordless communion with God will be restored but for now we have the foundation that is God's truth as revealed through HIS word. Heb 4:12

Feb 10, 2008 03:01 PM
I scored a 20 on the quiz, which didn't surprise me too much. A few years ago I'm sure I would have been a conservative ("Death to the pagans!!!"), but I love that I've learned to let go of some of that stringency that was so a part of my childhood years. My heart breaks for the millions of Catholics in the world who attend mass sometimes daily and are MISSING THE BIG PICTURE, which is a direct relationship with God. They are so devoted, but to the wrong thing. It's so frustrating!!!

Anyway - a world without books is something I'd never thought of before. How intriguing!! And to think that probably one small pebble was dropped into a pond that started the written word, but it could have dropped on the sand and never started the ripples flowing. So much that has happened in this world is hit and miss, but God still manages to turn it into something good if it misses. Because who knows what my life would be like now without Harry Potter in it. I shudder to even contemplate.

Feb 10, 2008 09:54 PM
Tod - I'm afraid I've not made myself clear. I'm sorry. I am not speaking JUST of the Bible here.

Shea's thoughts about BOOKS got me thinking about LANGUAGE as a concept. I'm talking about "modes of communication". I am not calling into question the holliness or inspiration of the scriptures. I am (indeed) hypothising about the NECESSITY for LANGUAGE.

It's because we are fallen that language is even needed to reach us...even the Holy, inspired (w)ords of God that we read in the Bible exist ONLY as part of God's plan to reach us in our fallen-ness. Sure, I'm totally speculating on whether there would be language if we HADN'T fallen, whether there will be language in heaven...but that's only meant to EMPHASIZE God's power, sovereignty and loving plan which transcends even things like language itself.

God's Word (capital W) is a transcendent concept that encompasses ALL of God's communication with us and is not limited to language (spoken, written sung, signed typed or danced) and it includes the Christ, the creation AND the Scriptures. But the Word, it seems to me is bigger than just LANGUAGE.

As far as this hypothesis being without foundation, I would have to say my foundation is 99% scriptural:

John 5:39You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

1John 1 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

Psalm 139:4 Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD. 5 You hem me in—behind and before;you have laid your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.

You quoted Hebrews 4:12 (which is in the context of "entering rest") but I think what Matthew Henry has to say about that passage is a good way to summarize the distinction I'm trying to make...

"By the word of God we may understand either the essential or the written word: the essential Word, that in the beginning was with God, and was God (John 1:1), the Lord Jesus Christ, and indeed what is said in this verse is true concerning him; but most understand it of the written word, the holy scriptures, which are the word of God."

Oh...and Shirl needs to get out more!

Feb 11, 2008 07:57 PM
I've been thinking about the Hazen Wordless Communication theory (aka hypothesis). Not for very long, but i did think about it. The one thing that I would hope blows that theory out of the water is music. Mostly praising God through song. Singing is rampant throughout the bible, and even the angels do it. Unless our version of singing changed with the introduction of verbal communication. Great! Now I have to go think about this some more.

Thanks for nothing, Dan'l!!! =+D+

Feb 11, 2008 08:46 PM
I only have one word to say to about your anithesis:

Drums.